Renting Solar Panels

I'd be more worried that there is very little regulation in place to prevent CR from aggregating a huge energy futures portfolio - in which they stand a 50/50 chance of going bust, or seeing windfall profits.

If the energy market moves in their favor - it won't matter whether they have a product or not - commited customers will pay them "todays price" for tomorrows energy.

On the other hand - if the market moves against them - they don't have the capital to keep their part of the bargain. It is Win/Bankrupcy for them, and lose-more/lose-less for the customer.

Invite the SEC to investigate at:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/208387720

Ben

Solar Kismet posted more information about them and their woes...

I think that the skepticism of CitizenRE voiced by SolarKismet and others is not only justified but also critical. I, too, think this is a very interesting and, probably, good business model for widespread distribution of solar panels on individual homes. It's also not new...I first heard about it a couple years ago from BP Solar. I don't know what ever happened to the idea as I have not heard anything else since. BP Solar has  several advantages over CitizenRE in that they have a plant (in Frederik, MD) and experience selling, installing, and maintaining photovoltaic systems in industrial, commercial, and residential applications. I think it would be very revealing of the viability of the CitizenRE approach to know what came of the similar BP Solar idea.

The main reason I think that skepticism and questioning of CitizenRE is important is due to history. After the last energy crisis solar thermal systems spread like wildfire across the country. The problem is that there was very little history and regulation in place to ensure that consumers were getting a good system. The products themselves were sometimes of questionable quality and often produced by companies that soon disappeared leaving customers with no support. Even worse, installers cropped up like roofers after a hail storm. There was no way to ensure that they had the experience to properly install the systems or would be around to maintain systems and support customers.

All this lead to installations that did not meet the needs of the customers, failed to work properly, or worse. My parents installed a solar thermal system on their newly built house in the late 80's. It really didn't make sense for them to do it but the promises of the, later to be recognized as shady, sales people made it appear to be a wise decision. Their heating costs were, and continue to be, very, very low (admittedly there was an element of hedging against that not continuing). The only good use of the solar thermal heat in the house was to heat water which is too small of a portion of the household energy use to justify the expense. Besides that, the system never worked up to the promised levels of efficiency. The forced air output was often colder than the room temperature. It has now been removed from the roof and sits in the junk pile out back.

If we are to avoid a replay of this we must be sure that the questions being raised are answered and that the answers give a good level of confidence that customers will be provided with an appropriate system for their long-term needs. The damage done to the public image of solar systems by the last round of widespread installations is only just fading. Can we afford another hit by poorly installed, poorly built, oversold, inappropriate system? I doubt it.

Sorry about the improper formatting, the previous message was NOT posted by Rob, I copied the text from the Ecopreneur page.

nobody

There is new training and a very challenging test coming out for Citizenre Ecopreneurs now that is raising the bar... of course some renegade Ecopreneurs got in and that was to be expected with internet marketing and they are the ones that you see the false ads from... as soon as the new test comes out then Ecopreneurs have 7-days to pass or they cannot sign customers or Ecopreneurs up... they still get to keep what they have earned but can't sign anyone up unless they are well educated on what we offer and are able to do so with honesty and integrity.
As for no plant yet... almost 10,000 customers (9866 tonight!) they know the plant isn't built yet and are happy to be some of the first in line for installs! Things are looking great from here!
Frank Knight

Tom Konrad offered the following comments on my personal blog:

Since I’m listed as the “pro” side, I thought I’d take a shot at answering some of your questions. (I astually consider myself “hopeful”… I think this is the business model for installing PV on homes for the future…To paraphrase Amory Lovins, people want power, not solar panels… but I do not know that CitizenRe is going to be the one to pull it off. Getting their plant up and running at reasonable cost is the biggest barrier I see.)

1. They have decided to keep a media blackout in the startup phase… basically because they want to make sure their website is working before they start trying to handle the volumes. I have heard that they are barely keeping up with volumes as it is. Basically, CitizenRE is still in Beta. The plan a big press release in the next two weeks. So far, we only know that the plant is “not in Texas” (one of the rumors.)

2. I seriously doubt the installers will be certified beyond the legal minimum. They will be working with just one type of system, and the installers will have specialized training on just that one type of system. This will be a much more assembly line type operation than the current customized installers. Which may allow them to get the cost reductions in installation that they need. Existing installers may not want to join, but they may have to… since CitizenRE is a much better financial deal for customers, and they can get it to work, the traditional installers are going to be hurting for business.

3. By theory is that they are signing up customers in all states with net metering, but only those customers in states with big incentives are going to see their panels anytime soon… as they lower their costs through volumes, people in other states will start to get panels, but it may be a very long wait. But it cost them very little to sign a customer, so they have no incentive not to start now. If I lived in a low incentive state, I would not rush out to sign up.

4. CitizenRE is the first to use this model on this scale. I think someone will make it work eventually. The first mover advantage may not be enough to make it work for them, but just becausse they are first does not mean that tehy won’t succeed. Think Amazon and Ebay…. and pets.com. We just can’t know, but I’m glad they are trying.

5. We’ll find out more with the promised press release. Again, my theory is that they wanted to start slowly, and keeping a media lid on it means that they don’t have a big volume surge. I agree the manufacturing date is unrealistic… unless they started construction 1-2 years ago. Again, we’ll see.

There are real questions, but at the moment, CitizenRE is the only real way to get solar in an economical fashion. Even in a high rebate state like CO, PV has a 25-30 year payback… I have better uses for my cash. I’d rather rent, even if there is only a 50-50 chance that my panels will ever materialize. If I had to pay for them out of pocket, I wouldn’t buy them at all.

Your claim that being a vegetarian or buying the right car has a better cost/benefit analysis than going solar would make sense if the homeowner had to buy the panels.

With our model they just pay the same rate per Kwh that they paid before.

Yes, we make more money is certain markets, but we have to prove our model in every state and every climate for our investors.

You will have plenty of information soon. We are not trying to be secretive, just manage our growth. Once people know who is behind Citizenre, the growth will be exponential.

I understand that some people are skeptical. I am proud of the solution we have created. Watch the news over the next weeks.

Look what ABC news said about us: http://www. 10news.com/video/10817092/index.html
And here is an article by the Associate Press: http://asap.ap.org/stories/1159211.s

Change always makes people nervous. Right now we are attracting the early adopters. When our model becomes obvious to everyone, the rest will join the solution.

If you want to see our video that explains our offer or see how much you would save with our solar calculator (lower left of page) just go to www.jointhesolution.com/join

Rob Styler
President, Powur of Citizenre

Mr. Styler also responded on Renewable Energy Now’s blog…He has an active RSS feed and time to burn I guess…

I don't doubt the business model.  I think it has everything a consumer could want - no risk, economic sense, etc.  Like I mentioned above, it's happening in the commercial, i.e. large, markets.  It's not a matter of "if" but "when".  But either we have the next Google on our solar hands (believe me, prove me wrong), or the entire solar industry has been grossly overlooking something.

In fact, the entire energy industry would be wrong.  Why aren't heat pumps, wind turbines, and even regular old furnaces managed this way?  The answer: capital.  If they get 10,000 people to do this at 3 kilowatts each, they need at least $150,000,000 to set-up systems on people's houses.  Add in a 500 MW manufacturing plant, worth another few hundred million...They must have the Google Foundation as one of their funders...

There's no factory, there's no silicon contract for a factory, there's no investors that have been contacted about a factory, and there's no one in the company capable of operating a factory. The contract is full of holes and outs for them.

There's no installers backing them up, and no one who's ever turned a wrench on a panel has signed up. The address leads to a storefront in Delaware, and the blogs posted about them are 99% false grassroots.

(In fact, I have my suspicions about this one - the "at first I was skeptical, but let's talk about it and boost the Google rank" schtick is an old one.)

It's a fancy website over top of a Ponzi scheme. Try talking to someone there and see how quick they ask for some of your friend's email addresses. Or, for another laugh, write them and ask where the factory is. The worst part is if they've suckered some state economic development department to back them.

Join in the solution and stop being part of the problem! I have investigated this company since its inception. I have spoken to it's principals and have evaluated the technical side of this company. I have 28 years of electrical engineering background and give a "GREEN" light to sign up for this "GREEN" energy alternative!
Go to:
www.jointhesolution.com/yorkville
and read all the data and facts - make your own educated decision to sign up for SOLAR!!

Citizenre spam is all over the internet promoting how individuals can make thousands of millionaires

http://www.powerhomebiz.com/News/012007/solar-power-business.htm

and "free solar system" ads. They clearly have no control over their MLM minions. They must be accumulating a lot of complaints at the Federal Trade Commission. It would be interesting to place a FOIA request to get any complaints against Citizenre

It is so easy to say something cliche like "join the solution and stop being part of the problem". If we didn't care about the solution, we wouldn't have investigated solar options and eventually read about Citizenre, now would we?

It is a VERY legitimate question to ask:Where is the factory?
Are there material vendors? Does Citizenre have real contracts with these vendors? Are there contractors trained and in line to install these products? Who are they?

I looked up information on Mr. Styler and he is a marketer par excellance (remember Equinox?). There is nothing wrong with being a marketer, however, I am surely going to check out someone I would consider doing business for/with. Perhaps, I haven't been on the cover of INC magazine for my salesmanship, but I am known to be honest and I would prefer to pitch something that is concrete rather than an if/come venture.
Yes, we are long overdue for something of this nature. I believe that this business model in some form, is coming.

At first blush, I was excited, but after some thought, these questions keep popping up and there is NO REAL INFORMATION or answer, especially from the Citizenre people.
Just a thought.

I just became an Ecopreneur for CitizenRe. After going through their tutorials and talking to some of its associates, it seems to me that this is real. According to some, they are using new designs and methods from top people in order to cut production cost in half.

Having said that, I wouldn't trust it until we see the results playing out. As an Ecopreneur, you don't commit to any type of contract or anything. You can also choose to wait until September 2007 to see if, in fact, this is real. So far, over 5,000 homes across the nation have signed up to get the solar systems once they come in. As for the production facility, I believe it is a $415 million facility in Texas (don't trust me on that).

Keep an open eye, but don't discount it as not true. We are long overdue for this kind of business model to come forth.

From a thread on the internal www site:

P.S. Our plant is not in Texas......

Rob